Elevate Your Social Media Engagement
Rethinking Social Media Engagement
What Does Engagement Really Mean?
The episode begins with Amy's pressing question: why do our social media posts often fall flat despite our best efforts? According to Elizabeth, the first mistake entrepreneurs make is putting too much importance on engagement metrics. "Engagement doesn’t equal sales and it doesn't equal happiness," she explains. It's imperative to understand that while engagement can indicate interest, it's not the sole determinant of business success. There are countless accounts with small followings making millions, while high-engagement accounts may not necessarily equate to profit.
Shifting Focus to Community-Building
Elizabeth emphasizes the importance of fostering a community rather than just pushing content. Platforms like Facebook groups, Mighty Networks, and Circle are excellent for creating spaces where people feel their opinions matter. Elizabeth says, “People don’t want more content; they want to be entertained and to feel included.” As business owners, it’s crucial to ask genuine questions rather than simply spewing out content. This creates a sense of belonging, which in turn, boosts meaningful engagement.
Mastering the Art of Asking Questions
Get Specific and Keep It Simple
One potent strategy for sparking engagement is the art of asking the right questions. Elizabeth advises steering clear of overly broad or complicated queries. Instead, opt for specific, easy-to-answer questions like, "What new skill did you learn last week?" This kind of question is top-of-mind and doesn’t require deep thinking, which makes it easier for your audience to respond. The goal is to make it effortless for them to engage and share their experiences.
Cultivate a Welcoming Atmosphere
Creating an environment where people feel safe and valued is key. Elizabeth likens this to walking into an energetic, vibrant room at a live event. Your aim is to cultivate a space where openness and vulnerability are the norms. This involves being transparent and setting a tone that encourages others to be open too. Your community should understand that their voice matters, and they are an integral part of something larger.
Leverage Analytics Wisely
Don’t Be Held Hostage by the Algorithm
It's easy to become disheartened when posts don't perform as expected. Elizabeth confesses that even she experiences fluctuations in engagement. Rather than fixate on these numbers, she focuses on her mission and the next steps. “I just am always focused on what’s next,” she says. Use analytics to inform where you should direct your energy, rather than letting it dictate your perceived success or failure.
Prioritize High-Engagement Platforms
Platforms like Facebook groups and email newsletters typically offer higher engagement rates than Instagram. Elizabeth shares that Facebook groups often see 40%-60% engagement compared to Instagram's 2%. Using these metrics, she prioritizes where to spend her time, recognizing that each touchpoint in her ecosystem plays a distinct role.
Avoiding the Viral Trap
Viral Content Isn’t Always Valuable
The rush to create viral content can mislead many entrepreneurs. Elizabeth’s advice is to consider whether you’d be proud to be known for the content that goes viral. She recounts experiences where she was encouraged to create quirky or outlandish videos, which she rejected. Instead, she focuses on content that aligns with her core mission and values, understanding that meaningful engagement is more valuable than fleeting popularity.
Conclusion
Engagement on social media is more than just numbers; it’s about building a community that resonates with your brand’s mission. By asking the right questions, cultivating a welcoming atmosphere, leveraging analytics wisely, and avoiding the allure of viral trends, you can truly double your engagement in a meaningful way. As Elizabeth puts it, the aim is to create an ecosystem where every platform serves its purpose, leading to a more engaged and passionate audience.
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Transcript for Episode 350. Engagement Down? Stop Stressing!
Amy [00:00:03]:
Social media engagement is one of those topics that so many of us just get frustrated. We're posting all of these things, and then they just end up flopping. Nobody's liking, nobody's commenting, nobody's sharing, and it's this hamster wheel of frustration as a business owner. But our guests today, Elizabeth Henson, owner and CEO of Elizabeth Henson Incorporated, is here to help us, help us increase that engagement, double our engagement in a way that feels easy and fun. Elizabeth helps creative leaders build, scale and monetize powerful communities around their brand so that marketing is easy. So engagement is a huge piece of this. And, Elizabeth, I am so excited to dive into this topic with you today. So with that being said, engagement, what are we doing wrong as entrepreneurs that we're putting all of this time, all of this energy into these posts and nobody's engaging? Where's the problem?
Elizabeth [00:01:10]:
Yes. Well, Amy, thank you so much for having me. I'm really excited to chat about this because most importantly, it's like, what are we making that mean? Right? Like, why are we so attached to this word engagement? And what does that even give us? Right? Because we all know there are people out there with very small social media accounts making millions that are probably not getting any kind of engagement, and they don't care about it, right? And then there's people with thousands and thousands and thousands of followers that aren't necessarily rich or happy. So why are we putting so much meaning on engagement? You know, is always the place that I like to start because engagement doesn't equal sales and it doesn't equal happiness.
Amy [00:01:52]:
Thank you. Oh, my gosh. Like, if you're listening to this, like, how good does that feel? Like, as humans, we're meaning making machines, right? We like to assign meanings to everything, and we're so attached to some of these metrics that we see, oh, engagements down, and then, you know, we get in our heads and it really does screw us up a little bit. But I love how you said that, you know, there's small audiences out there, you know, business owners with small audience that have multimillion dollar businesses. We're putting all of the emphasis on this one metric and tying it to our worth. But the reality is, no, that's just a piece of the puzzle.
Elizabeth [00:02:32]:
Yeah. Yeah. And so when I work with people on engagement, it's from a really community driven standpoint. So Facebook groups, mighty network circle, whatever your platform is, this works on Instagram, too. But really, it's all about asking questions rather than giving content. And I know that's, like, when when the world is zigging, we're going to zag. Because everyone's like, content, content, content. People don't want more content.
Elizabeth [00:03:00]:
They want to be entertained. That is a thing. Right now, we are all seeing this trend of like, let's be entertained on social media, but they want a place to kind of talk about themselves or to react or to respond. So if we really want to see a change in our engagement, we have to be able to, like, cultivate this space where people feel like their opinion matters.
Amy [00:03:23]:
And I love how you said, you know, asking questions, making them feel like they're a part of the process. So how do we go about doing that as a business owner without it feeling like we're interrogating our audience constantly?
Elizabeth [00:03:38]:
Yeah. So I like to use these really short one line questions that are open ended but also quick and easy to answer. So a good example is what is a new skill that you learned last week? Now, some people might say, I learned to ride a bicycle as a grown up. I can't believe I actually finally learned how to ride a bicycle. But then somebody might say, oh, Elizabeth, I tried your strategy in my group and it worked. Thank you. Right. Or people are going to have answers all over the place.
Elizabeth [00:04:11]:
But it's quick. It's easy for them to think of because it just happened last week. They probably want to brag about whatever it was. I mean, how many times have you tried something new like pilates or whatever, and now you want to go tell your friend about it. Right? So it's that quick, easy to answer, top of mind. The mistake we make with our questions is we're requiring our audience to think too much. So if I was to show up and say, what are you struggling with? They're going to go, oh, God, like, they're just, they're not even going to want to know which bucket to pull from. It's too broad.
Elizabeth [00:04:43]:
But if I said, what specifically about email marketing feels difficult today, right. Then they might just say, I don't even want to show up. But they can answer that so much faster when we give them that little bit more specificity and more context. And that's what people are missing in their questions, in their conversation starters, is it's just way too broad or they're having to think too much.
Amy [00:05:04]:
That's a great point because, yeah, when people are on some of these platforms, they're going to escape. We're going to be entertained. So we don't want to think we're avoiding something. A lot of the time when we're on social media scrolling. But you're right. Having that specificity that makes so much sense because now I'm not having to use that brain power because sometimes you ask them, okay, what are you struggling with? They don't even know where to begin because they're so overwhelmed, they're so frustrated. They're so in the thick of it that you're asking them to use so much brain power that they just can't even, like, begin to fathom. And they're just going to keep scrolling, whereas the way you reframed it, yeah, that makes total sense.
Amy [00:05:53]:
I love that. And something else you said, too, is people love to talk about themselves, which is so true. How can we, as entrepreneurs, go about cultivating that, sparking those conversations to get them talking about theirselves? Because that really does go a long way to help them feel seen and heard and validated.
Elizabeth [00:06:16]:
Yeah. So one thing I like to have people do is think about the environment and the culture that they want to set. And the example I like to use is, have you ever been to an in person event, like a big one? Or you just walk in the room and the energy is, like, up a notch and you are knowing this is bigger than me. Like, there's just this knowing of whatever's about to happen is going to be so good. And we want to cultivate that same atmosphere in our communities or on our platform so that when people walk in, they know that they want to be a part of it. And then we, as facilitators, need to make sure that we're cultivating a space where we're vulnerable and open and that other members are vulnerable and open so that these new people, when they come in the room, they know it's a space where they're safe to share, too. Whatever your topic is, right, it doesn't all have to be the everything, but whatever your specific topic is is how can we really cast that bigger mission? Why are you on the planet? Why does this community exist? We get so stuck in, like, the how of the day to day of, like, how do I get my reel to go viral? But, like, no, it's, why are you here on the planet? And what's the difference that you can make that people are going to say, this is big. I want to be part of it.
Amy [00:07:29]:
Right, right. It really makes people. Makes you magnetic, and it makes people want to be around you. What advice can you give us for working to really cultivate those. Those feelings that, yeah, you're welcome here. And this is just the overall vibe of the community that you're entering into.
Elizabeth [00:07:50]:
Yeah. I mean, it's. It's all about that big vision. What does it point back to? Right? Like, you know, I'm here. I'm on the planet to help people do what they love and make a living doing it. That's really the core as to why I do everything that I do. So whenever I'm like, oh, what do I. What do I say today? Or what do I do? It's like, how can I just call those people in the, what can I do or say that's going to serve them or drive them to feel safe or included? This is why quotes are some of the most powerful, most engaging things that we can put on instagram specifically is, like, people just love seeing quotes that they quickly identify with, that they quickly feel like, this is where I belong, this person agrees with me.
Elizabeth [00:08:32]:
I feel safe. I feel seen all those things.
Amy [00:08:35]:
Yeah. And I love how you said, you know, it's all about them. It's about serving them. It's about being in service to others. And, you know, it's easy as entrepreneurs to put things up on Instagram and they flop. And then we start to blame the algorithm. We're like, oh, maybe I'm shadow banned. What are your thoughts around that?
Elizabeth [00:08:56]:
Oh, my gosh. And I love this. Cause, like, I feel like this is happening to me right now. Like, I'm using the same strategy that I used six months ago, like, this mini chat strategy to bring in people in my local area. I host a lot of, like, local meetups in my area. And I'm like, six months ago, like, this was working, and I'm doing the exact same thing, and it is like, nothing. Like, not even being served to people. Like, 150 people are even seeing it, and I'm like, what is the difference? Right? But the difference is me.
Elizabeth [00:09:28]:
And that I'm not making it mean anything. I'm not sitting here dwelling like, oh, my God, nobody wants to come to my meetups anymore. Like, I suck. The algorithm hates me. I'm just like, okay, what's next? We'll send an email newsletter. We'll share. We'll reshare this again in our stories. Like, I just am always focused on what's next.
Elizabeth [00:09:48]:
How can I make sure that more people see this? How can I stay true to why I'm doing it in the first place? Not this. Like, oh, I give up because it's not working right, but it happens to all of us. Like, I'm out in the world teaching people how to get more engagement. And you can go to my Instagram and you'll. We'll see crickets. It's fine.
Amy [00:10:07]:
I thank you so much for sharing that. Seriously, I think that just lifted an invisible weight off of so many people's shoulders because, yes, we get into our heads, but the thing is, it's going to happen. It's this up and down roller coaster and it's all just data, it's just information. I mean, things are always changing. Your summer's a busy time. People aren't on the platform as much. And I think, too, you know, people are a little bit burnt out with social media and sometimes they need to take a break, which is fine. As business owners, it's okay to not be attached to your phone 24/7 something I've started doing is taking the weekends off.
Amy [00:10:50]:
I unplug from social media on the weekends. And I will tell you what, it's eye opening because at first I didn't realize how often I subconsciously reached for my phone just to check. I have my notifications off. But it was like, oh, did somebody dm me? Do I need to get back? And it's like, wait a minute, I'm not running an emergency room here. Like, it can wait till Monday. Like, I'm missing this life right before me. So I think just really giving yourself that permission and checking in with yourself is going to help you then show up better and have the energy throughout the week, because it can be draining when you're not getting the results that you desire right away. And in the world we're living in, we're so used to instant results.
Amy [00:11:33]:
You place an order on Amazon, it's delivered within a day or two. So social media, it's the same thing. We're expecting these instantaneous results. We're comparing our smaller accounts with these accounts that have hundreds of thousands, if not millions of followers. I think that's such an important point that you're making that we need to get out of our heads. These are just, it's just information. Now, are there any specific metrics that you track with your engagement to know, like, oh, this is resonating, or do you tend to just use the analytics provided for you within the platforms?
Elizabeth [00:12:10]:
Yeah, so I use the analytics to kind of tell me where to spend my time. And this is why, like, I'm kind of known as, like, the Facebook group person because people that use my strategy for Facebook groups, 40% to 60% of people in that group are seeing their posts. 40% to 60% of people are opening their newsletters, whereas on Instagram, I'm not an Instagram expert, but the Instagram experts will tell you it is 2%. So I look at those numbers and I say, where do I need to be spending my time, and how do I want people's journey with me to go? So, Instagram, that 2%, I'm like, that is first base. That might be how somebody finds me.
Amy [00:12:51]:
Yeah.
Elizabeth [00:12:52]:
And I have a larger platform over there. Cause I've been using it for over a decade now. Right. Like, people are. I think Instagram's gonna. Gonna die out eventually, I guess. I don't know, but people find me there. But if they make their way to my newsletter and my Facebook community, that's, like, second base.
Elizabeth [00:13:08]:
They're raising their hand now. They've gone through a little bit of effort. They're raising their hand. They want more of what I have to say. And so that's a higher engagement percentage. It means I want to spend my time there, and it means that they're, like, in my orbit. So I don't use the algorithms as much to, like, justify or decide whether a post was successful or not. I decide where am I going to spend my time and how can I use these metrics to benefit this customer journey?
Amy [00:13:42]:
Yeah, that is such a great answer because so often I see entrepreneurs spending so much time and energy on platforms like Instagram that are getting that low organic reach. Sure, you can pay to boost and sponsor and all of these things, but at the end of the day, why are we not pouring our time and energy into these platforms, like you said, that are getting 40% to 60%? I mean, my email list, yes, it's smaller than my Instagram following, but my open rate, my engagement rate, my reply rate, like, it's so massive. So, of course I want to spend time nurturing there. And for you, you know, add in the Facebook group component, it's about using that data that you're given to work smarter instead of harder.
Elizabeth [00:14:34]:
Yeah, yeah, exactly. I mean, so many people make Instagram the end all be all, but to me, I'm like, that's just a touch point. And it is entertaining, and I think the reels are fun, but I don't. I mean, it's just not where my energy goes, because I know that's not where my people are really, really engaging with me. And most of my people on there aren't even seeing it. So it's like, why break my back when, like you said, I can pour into my newsletter and the people that are opening my newsletters are way more likely to want to hear what I have to say and to buy from me and all those things. Yeah, it's all this, like, it's an ecosystem. It's not just like one platform is going to solve everything.
Elizabeth [00:15:12]:
I have a friend who's amazing at Instagram. I mean, that is her go to platform. She's so great at it. And she was resisting a Facebook group for the longest time. And then finally she's like, Elizabeth, I finally want to do a Facebook group. Help me. So we set it up, and she's like, my only mistake was not doing this sooner. She's like, I made it out to be so much more work in my head.
Elizabeth [00:15:33]:
She said, but it's just another touch point. And all these people are finding me that weren't finding me on Instagram because that's not their main platform, and now they can find me. You know, it's like, it's just another part of the ecosystem. It doesn't mean we have to be great at all of them.
Amy [00:15:51]:
I like that. You know? It doesn't mean we have to be great at all of them. You're right. It's about creating different touch points. It's about being strategic and asking ourselves, why am I doing this? Why am I putting time and energy into this specific platform? Because you're right. There are people that are awesome, absolutely awesome, at Instagram. But I'm like you. I don't want everything all in one place.
Amy [00:16:13]:
I don't want all my eggs in one basket. Because at the end of the day, you know, Instagram accounts are constantly getting hacked, getting blocked, like getting anything can happen. So it's so wise that you have these different avenues, these different touch points where people you are meeting them, where they are on their journey. Now, I would love to hear your thoughts on going viral, doing all of the trendy things. What's your take? I have a hint to what you're going to say, but I love to talk about that.
Elizabeth [00:16:46]:
And I have a funny story around this. I'm petting my dog if you're wondering why I'm rocking back and forth. So I had someone helping me with my social media for a while, and she was wonderful because she would take videos that I had created and make reels out of them. But every now and then she would ask me to do something a little outlandish, right? Like, let's go outside and walk in the puddle in your socks. And she's like, this is going to get tons of views. I know it. And I was like, yeah, but if I, like, landed on the Today show tomorrow, that's not what I want to be known for. And that is always my compass.
Elizabeth [00:17:20]:
When I'm creating social media is like, if this is the thing, because we don't know, like, we don't know what the algorithm is gonna do. I could have the most boring posts ever about my dog and it just takes off. Right? But I'm like, if this is the thing, is this what I wanna be known for? And is it some weird trend where I'm dancing or, like, shaking my booty to get the views? And, like, that is not what I wanna be known for. So, you know, that is always my moral compass. And what I will say after having one post go viral. Thank goodness. It was a quote, and it was very aligned. It drew in the right people.
Elizabeth [00:17:59]:
Right? And it was just right quote, right time. There was no magic to it. I think it was right around the time the war in Ukraine started, and it was just a post about leadership and how leaders bring people together and don't create more separation. That was it. And it was to music. It was just to simple, real. My person created it. I didn't even do it.
Elizabeth [00:18:21]:
And it just went super, super viral. But I noticed the people it was bringing in were female entrepreneurs who are passionate about their work. So that's, like, where viral goes to your benefit of, like, is it going to call the right people in, or are you just chasing, like, the metrics and the vanity?
Amy [00:18:42]:
Yeah, such great advice. Because, yeah, I don't want to be on Instagram shaking my booty. I'm just not that person. But you're right. You know, something like that. You're calling in the right person. You're calling in people that are aligned with that perfect example. I love it.
Amy [00:19:02]:
Oh, my gosh, Elizabeth, I could talk to you all day, but if you are listening to this and you're like, oh, my gosh, I need to be in her world. Make sure you head over to Elizabeth Henson co freeguide or a guide on how to double your engagement. We will link that up in the show notes. And Elizabeth, thank you so, so much for taking time out of your busy schedule to share with our listeners today.
Elizabeth [00:19:29]:
Oh, thank you so much for having me. And I was gonna say, don't get it twisted. I do have some fun dance moves, but I love it. Right? It's, like, not what I don't wanna go on the Today show and have them be like, can you show us that move you did? No, absolutely. Nothing but please ask me questions about leadership and community building. Right? Thank you so much for having me. And yes, you guys go grab the free guide. It's tons of examples of those one liner questions that I mentioned and you can literally just copy paste them and use them on your platforms.
Amy [00:19:57]:
I love it. I will definitely be grabbing one as well. I would love for you to share out this episode, Tag Elizabeth and myself and just let us know what resonated. And until next time, cheers to making the money you want so you can create the impact you desire.
Elizabeth [00:20:17]:
Awesome. Thanks, Amy.
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